Transcript: Effective Job Searches

The following is a transcript of a BostonWorks chat hosted by Orville Pierson, author of "The Unwritten Rules of the Highly Effective Job Search." The chat took place on Tuesday, April 18th from noon to 1 p.m.

BostonWorks: Hello, everyone, and welcome to our live chat with today's distinguished guest, author Orville Pierson. Orville is here with us for the next hour to chat about his new book, "The Unwritten Rules of the Highly Effective Job Search," just out from McGraw-Hill, and take your questions about the job search. Welcome, Orville.

Orville Pierson: I'm happy to be here today. Talking to people about job search is what I have done all my life. And I'm happy to do that today.

BostonWorks: I am going to start with a couple of questions for Orville, who is also a Senior Vice President with global career management firm Lee Hecht Harrison. Orville, what prompted you to write this book?

Orville Pierson: There are 2500 books in print on job search. Most of them are on job search techniques like resume writing, interviewing and networking. The Unwritten Rules of the Highly Effective Job Search is about a job hunting system -- how to plan, organize, and carry out a really effective search. I wrote it so people can see how to put all the pieces together.

BostonWorks: In a nutshell, what is the Pierson method you present in the book?

Orville Pierson: In the Pierson method, you make a project plan. The plan includes a professional objective, a definition of your target market, and a plan for your core message. While you are working on the plan, you use progress measurements so you can see where you stand.

BostonWorks: OK, let's get to your questions, chatters.

Seeker1: Any tips on how to look for a new job while holding down my current one? It's exhausting, plus how do I have phone conversations or go to interviews?

Orville Pierson: It IS exhausting. Looking for a job while you are working is almost like having two jobs. You will need to be on the telephone, but many conversations can be in the evening. I hope you have enough interviews that taking time off work becomes a problem :)

Norma_Jean: I have applied to over 30 jobs I am qualified for, but no one is calling me back. What am I doing wrong?

Orville Pierson: Job applications is not the most effective way to go. Job applications are usually about talking to strangers. There are some informal methods that are much more effective. You need to have a target list on paper, and you need to start talking to people on that list.

Albert: What's the best way to use the internet for getting a job?

Orville Pierson: You should certainly be looking for job postings on the internet. Sites like this one have an excellent array of listings. At the same time, you should be using the internet to research organizations on your target list. Google them. Check newspaper sites for articles about them. Go to the websites of your targets.

Bill_Gibbons: First, I echo Seeker1's comment about the exhausting process of trying to find a job while holding one down. Second, what are your thoughts on changing careers? Any tips for marketing transferrable skills?

Orville Pierson: When changing careers, it's important to clarify what kind of work you want before you start talking to employers. Informal conversations are particularly important for career changers. You need to talk to people in your new field to educate yourself. After you have done that, make a target list and proceed like everyone else. It's important to talk about your transferrable skills in the language of your new field, not your old one.

bostonwill: Orville, how specific should I be with my objective-- should I think in terms of a job title, or something broader?

Orville Pierson: For some very common job titles -- like accountant -- a job title is a good objective. For most people, a good objective is a cluster of job titles. One way to think about it is this: start by naming your profession, then point to areas of particular interest in the profession.

Yazman67: Do you have any special advice for the over 50 job seeker?

Orville Pierson: I'm older than that myself. More and more people are working longer and longer. It's not uncommon to see people still working in their 70's and 80's. Some employers still have prejudices about age. Many don't. I treat it like other prejudices. You need to work around it and find unprejudiced employers. There are plenty of them out there.

Chatter: How do you respond when the interviewer says you are well compensated, we can't pay you that much? My first thought is to say, I'm very good at what I do and that's why they pay me what I'm being paid!

Orville Pierson: I think you are on the right track in your thinking. Salary is usually negotiable. The negotiation process starts while you are interviewing. You need to lay the groundwork as early as possible. You also need to be well aware of the going rate for your kind of work in your target market. There are entire books on salary negotiation. I've made some suggestions for books to read on my website, www.highlyeffectivejobsearch.com

JobSearch22: Some recruiting firms suggest not posting your resume on job boards, but doesn't it make sense to do both (work with recruiters and post your resume)?

Orville Pierson: There are seven different job search techniques -- or activities people engage in to get interviews. You have named two of them. I recommend that people use whichever techniques work for them. If it is getting you interviews, do more of it. If not, try another technique.

curious: I was able to ascertain the hiring manager's name, however I don't know anyone in the company. What do I do to get the hiring manager to respond to me, since I'm not supposed to ask him/her for a job.

Orville Pierson: Getting a hiring manager's name is good work. You did that part well. Another very important piece is getting an introduction to the hiring manager. The average person in job search talks to 14 people to get an introduction to one hiring manager. A couple of those people work inside the hiring manager's company. So what you do is get people to introduce you to insiders at your own level. Those people introduce you to the hiring manager. You want to meet the hiring manager before that person has a job opening.

rag23: I have a target list and I applied to jobs in those companies by electronically submitting my resume. They seen to prefer the electronic process, especially to do a keyword search etc. What else can I do to follow-up?

Orville Pierson: Congratulations on having a target list. Most people ignore that. Having a target list is as important as having a resume. The strongest approach with a target list is to show it to people and ask those people for information about targeted companies. This helps you decide where you want to work. It can also get you introductions to insiders and an inside track on jobs.

Michael: I have a number of community service memberships which, as a manager, I think shows my ability to direct others. Should I put all this on my resume?

Orville Pierson: The question is always, "How will hiring managers in my target market react to this information?" If this is your only management experience, then it is very important. On the other hand, if you have management experience at work, it's less important. The other question is how the hiring manager will react to the names of those particular organizations.

Natasha_Doty: I have extensive experience as a manager and a project manager. I think the core skills there are very "general" ... and because of that I'm having a hard time narrowing down my target market ... any suggestions?

Orville Pierson: The term "project manager" is defined differently in different industries. I think it would help to get specific about what kind of projects you manage. I have a strong suspicion that you have a range of other skills imbedded in that one. Getting more specific should help.

BostonWorks: Folks, we've run into some technical difficulties at Orville's end - please bear with us.

needanewjob: Orville, how soon after starting a job is too soon to look for a new job? When do potential employers shy away from people with multiple jobs over the span of, say, a 10-year career?

Orville Pierson: Moving up, taking a promotion is always an acceptable reason for changing jobs. You need to have a good reason for making rapid changes. How long is an acceptable tenure varies from industry to industry.

Tom: Orville - In interviewing with a company, what's more important, my chemistry with the hiring manager or what I perceive the company's culture to be?

Orville Pierson: Both are important. You're thinkning in the right way about it. I would say that the chemistry is more important. After all, your job satisfaction depends heavily on the relationship with your manager.

Albert: Most things I've read about networking with people tell you to "just ask for advice" when everyone really knows you need a job. How can I be more honest with people?

Orville Pierson: I think honesty in networking is very important. There are books out there that suggest being less than honest. I disagree with that completely. I think the important thing is to have a target list and talk to people honeestly about their organizaton and that list. Tell them exactly what you're doing. I don't think it's about advice so much as it's about getting informaiton on your targets.

whit: How bad is it to have a gap on your resume while one is out of work? Should one take an interim job and if so, how long does one have to stay at the interim job?

Orville Pierson: Job search takes some time. One way to handle it is by listing dates as year only. This way a shorter gap does not show up. This is a common practice. You need to be prepared at an interview with a positive explanation of what you were doing. But everyone knows that job search takes some time.

Ed_2: I am looking for work in the IT field. I was recently told by a recruiter that I might want to dumb down my Resume until the job market in my field heats up in my geographic area? Is this a good idea? Or should I only do this to targeted jobs opportunities that may require me to do this for?

Orville Pierson: As a general rule, I don't like dumbing down resumes. I think you should get the job you deserve. The first question on my mind is whether the recruiter is speaking out of self interest. If the recruiter only has current listings at a lower level, they may be trying to get you to accept it so they'll make a commission. Talk to some other people and see what they say about your job market.

workaholic: If you are a recent college graduate, with one year of experience in an unrelated field, due to the job mkt at the time, use this experience to change your position when looking for a new job?

Orville Pierson: First you need to define your new field -- the kind of job you want now. Then you need to look and see what's your most relevant experience and talk about that. In a case like this, your odds are much better talking to people informally than using formal methods like recruiters. This is less of a problem in early career.

ppayt: Many organizations ask for letters of recommendation in advance. While I like my recommendations to be position-specific and recognize that this may provide a leg-up on getting in the door (and it has) I prefer to use my references wisely and do not like asking them to spend time writing letters on my behalf to organizations from which I may not even be granted an interview let alone an offer. Any suggestions on how to respond when you are specifically asked to submit letters of recommendation with your application? Any way around this?

Orville Pierson: I have not often heard of this. I agree with what you say about recommendations. If there are particular organizations that you are interested in and they seem to have a serious interest in you, I would go ahead and do it their way.

BostonWorks: Orville, 1,001 thanks for all the great advice today. Where can folks find out more about your book?

Orville Pierson: You can find more information on my book at www.highlyeffectivejobsearch.com. It's also in Barnes & Noble bookstores and at www.amazon.com.

BostonWorks: Great, Orville - thanks again.

Orville Pierson: It's a pleasure to be here on Boston.com.

BostonWorks: Chatters, thanks very much. Look for the chat transcript on BostonWorks.com, and good luck with the job search!